Why Entrepreneurs Should Sell Opportunity Instead Of Fear

Shannon Waller: Hi, Shannon Waller here, and welcome to Inside Strategic Coach with Dan Sullivan. Dan, as we were talking earlier today, you said something which I thought was both profound and lovely, and you said, I don't sell fear, I sell opportunity, which is true, but I would love to do a deeper dive into that. What do you mean when you say, I don't sell fear, I sell opportunity?
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, two other things. I don't sell pain, I sell growth. Okay, so I think the two of them go together, that growth and opportunity go together, and pain and fear go together. I want to talk about a definition I gave to selling. So Joe Polish and I, we have a great podcast called 10xTalk. And Joe's a marvelous marketer. He's a marvelous interviewer. He's a marvelous connector. And he asked me one day, he said, what do you consider to be selling? And I said, I think selling has two parts to it. It's intellectually connecting people to a future desirable result that's good for them, okay? And then emotionally engaging them to take the actions to achieve the results, the future results.
 
So on one hand, it's intellectual. On the other hand, it's emotional. And I think that all pitches, you know, any kind of pitch that's effective, that's compelling, you know, has to be both convincing and compelling. It's got to be convincing in that it's got to make sense, but it's also got to be compelling that the person will actually take action to achieve the result. But more and more as I notice, selling as it's done on the media, I don't watch television per se, but I see selling on the internet and you see it when you're out in public, that there's a lot of fear being sold. If you don't do this, this bad thing's gonna happen to you. If you don't take advantage of this right now, you're gonna be left behind, you're gonna be left out. One is that I don't think they're true, but the other thing is I don't want to engage with people that way, and I don't want to engage with people who are in pain.
 
Shannon Waller: Interesting.
 
Dan Sullivan: And I'm not looking for fearful people. You know, I'm not looking for them. I'm looking for confident people, successful people, who are looking for breakthroughs to a higher level of growth. Yeah, so I would say that's the difference. I'm not trying to make okay entrepreneurs into good entrepreneurs. Strategic Coach is designed to make already talented, successful, ambitious entrepreneurs into breakthrough entrepreneurs. And they're going to be successful whether they're with us or not. They're going to be talented whether they're with us or not. They're going to be ambitious whether they're with us or not. But they may find it really, really advantageous to be in a community where everybody is that way.
 
Shannon Waller: And I think we can also take out some of the bumps in the road. We can make it easier.
 
Dan Sullivan: We create a lot of shortcuts.
 
Shannon Waller: You sure do.
 
Dan Sullivan: Create a great community where you are not the weird odd person because everybody in the community has exactly those characteristics. Including moi, including me.
 
Shannon Waller: Including me, too. Well, Dan, my mind's a little blown here because, you know, first of all, as you say, it's not true. But then the point is, you're not looking for people in pain. You're not looking for fearful people. And that is what most of the advertising that you see or people think that, you know, pain is a motivator, fear is a motivator. But if that's who you're looking for, that messaging will be impactful, but that's not who you want, then don't talk that way. And it's interesting because a lot of our clients have a similar mindset. They wanna work with talented, successful, creative people.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, well, and I'm not fearful and I'm not in pain, so.
 
Shannon Waller: So those messages don't land with you.
 
Dan Sullivan: No, it's not.
 
Shannon Waller: Yeah.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, I'm not attracted to that.
 
Shannon Waller: It's fascinating to me because you're marketing to people like you, right?
 
Dan Sullivan: I'm looking for company.
 
Shannon Waller: You're looking for company as we all are. But it's fascinating to me because so much marketing focuses in on the pain, in on the fear, in on the deficiencies. We're like, no, you're great just as you are. And how can we help you be greater? You know, that's part of the mindset. So that is fascinating. Okay, so I don't sell fear, I sell opportunity, which is such a great way of doing it. So Dan, that is a lot of your why. As you said, you are looking for company. You're looking for other people like you. So we both have CliftonStrengths Maximizer, I believe, in our top 10. We like to take really good things and help make them amazing. What are some other facets of this for you? Because you do get to work with talented, successful, creative people who want to expand. Why is this so important to you? Have you tried working with the opposite and just wasn't any fun? Or what are your thoughts?
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, I would say that I started coaching entrepreneurs in 1974. So it's 51 years that I've been coaching. And right from the beginning, I had really good clients. I mean, good clients that they could write the check, that they were already successful, they were talented and ambitious. And the ambition was really an interesting thing. And I had a podcast yesterday with a great friend of mine, Jeff Madoff, and it was, what's the relationship between passion and ambition? It was a really good podcast, you know, and we played with it for about an hour.
 
And I said, I see passion as much more of an internal thing. It's a internal generator. You're ambitious because of your passion. But you're also ambitious, too, because you'd like to see your passion have an impact out in the world. You know, you'd like to, who you are, you know, where you're unique, you know, where you're creative, you would like that to have an impact in the world that you recognize, and also that your talent is recognized by other people. And I said, but there is a real difference if the passion and the ambition are not fused together.
 
And I noticed around 50 or 60 years old that people don't have any more ambition. And the reason is that they're not growth entrepreneurs, they're lifestyle entrepreneurs. And when they were younger, you know, children, teenagers, whatever, they saw who the successful people were. And there were some features that came along with the successful people, like where they lived, how they lived, there were clubs that they belong to, there was schools that their children went to, there were belongings they had, they had houses, they had cars, they had more than one house, they had a lot of cars and everything else. And that became the thing that they were heading towards. Okay.
 
They played by the rules, you know, of success and they, you know, got connected, they were in the right circles and everything else. You know, they were skillful in the marketplace, they could make a living, they could make more than a living. And they got there, but once they got there and they had all the, you know, they had all the signs of success, they had no more ambition. And it confused me for a while because they would be growing really well inside Strategic Coach. And all of a sudden they said, that's it. It's over, you know, 45, 50.
 
Shannon Waller: Right.
 
Dan Sullivan: 45 is the earliest. 45 to 60, you know, and that was sort of the, they slow down. They wouldn't be in the Program anymore. And then there was another group that just kept on growing. They get to one level of growth and they said, now I'm going for something much bigger, something much bigger. And what happened is the ones who stopped got old really fast and the ones who kept growing stayed young.
 
Shannon Waller: Nice. Yeah.
 
Dan Sullivan: They were excited. They were excited. They were motivated. They were enthusiastic. Where the others, once you've achieved the lifestyle scoreboard, the score doesn't change. There's no higher scoreboard that really matters.
 
Shannon Waller: Yeah. I'm thinking about the mindset scorecard, the difference between conventionally successful and growth oriented, right? And the demographics are not terribly dissimilar.
 
Dan Sullivan: Ambition is driven by strategy. And I think growth is driven by principles.
 
Shannon Waller: Oh, ambition is driven by strategy.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah.
 
Shannon Waller: And growth is driven by principles.
 
Dan Sullivan: It's internal principles that this is how I'm going to be, and this is my way of being, and that's never going to change. And one of my ways of being is that I'm useful, I'm talented, I'm creative, I’ve got inspiration, and that just never changes. So the age doesn't really matter, but ambition, there's an age qualification. While you're still doing that, you've got everything that you need, and they don't have any principle to argue with the fact that they don't need to strive anymore.
 
Shannon Waller: I've never heard you say that before. It's pretty genius. And growth is driven by principles. It's like, this is who I am.
 
Dan Sullivan: It is my way of being.
 
Shannon Waller: Yeah. And your lifestyle is a by-product of that. It's not the purpose of it, which it is for the ambitious people for whom conceptual success is the goal.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah.
 
Shannon Waller: That is fascinating.
 
Dan Sullivan: You know, we're on somebody's list and we get all these lifestyle books, you know, they're magazines, they're mostly advertising and they come up, you know, of exotic trips or luxury living, you know, houses, mansions.
 
Shannon Waller: The Rob Report.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're on their list, for some reason we've gotten on their list. But the people that they portray in them all look really lonely, and they don't look busy, it doesn't look like they're doing anything, and they look lonely, they look disconnected, there's no one around them, they're not really in groups and everything else, and I just say, why would you strive for that?
 
Shannon Waller: Well, and Dan is, you know, because I have these conversations with people too, and it's like my biggest fear in life is being bored. And if someone suggests those lifestyle things, I'm like, who the hell would I talk to? And I would have nothing in common with them. It just doesn't interest me at all. So I'm in the same mindset as you are. And yeah, it's like, I just want to keep being stimulated and doing fun things and creating value for people. And yes, I'd love to travel. I love to explore the world. There's no question. But I also want to be engaged in creating value for people. The idea of not being creative is painful.
 
Dan Sullivan: And I think the other thing is that the ambition has a goal of not being scared anymore. And the growth has a requirement that you have to be scared to jump to the next level of growth. And I think a lot of people want to retire from fear. But the moment you retire from fear, you also retire from excitement.
 
Shannon Waller: Oh, that's so good. Okay, the moment you retire from fear, you also retire from excitement.
 
Dan Sullivan: Excitement is just the other side of the same coin as fear is. You're taking a risk. And the biggest thing you're putting at risk when you're growing is your past. Okay, that this is the way I did it before, but I'm going to have to do it differently in the future. You know, I'm going to have to adjust. I'm going to have to adapt. There's going to be discomfort. I'm going to have to go through discomfort. You know, there's going to be moments when I say, have I made a mistake here? You know, and all of a sudden the juices start flowing and you got to recreate yourself in a new way.
 
Shannon Waller: I like that. Yeah, you keep recreating yourself, renew, literally.
 
Dan Sullivan: That's why rejuvenation, make young again, that's what rejuvenation means. I think when you retire, you don't rejuvenate.
 
Shannon Waller: Right, yes.
 
Dan Sullivan: I think you marinate, you don't rejuvenate. Or get pickled one of the time.
 
Shannon Waller: Yeah, you marinate in yesterday's sauces. Or alcohol. Dan, this reminds me of thinking about how do people take action and The 4 C’s comes to mind, because you're talking about courage, being willing to be scared, being willing to put things at risk.
 
Dan Sullivan: Commitment first.
 
Shannon Waller: Commitment first, yeah. So you commit to a new and different future you do not yet know how to do. Then you immediately experience the courage phase. And I love that this came out of our last book, Growing Great Leadership. Your commitment is to being willing to go through the courage. But out of that, you get creative and you have new capabilities that you develop. And out of that, you get new levels of confidence you didn't have before. So if people want to take action, they could do The 4 C’s, scare themselves a little bit in a good way. But what else? How else can people put this into play in terms of keeping themselves in that growth mindset of always wanting to be better and getting out of that? If someone does want to go, oh, I have been just focusing on ambition versus actually growth. What are your thoughts on that? How can people put that into play?
 
Dan Sullivan: I don't know if this is the way you go about it, but it's one of the indicators that you've done it, is who you hang out with.
 
Shannon Waller: Ooh, say more about that.
 
Dan Sullivan: Well, what I notice is that retired people hang out with retired people. Okay, they've all quit, and there's no possibility for growth if all you're hanging out with is people who don't want to grow anymore. So one of the things that's happened, I've noticed with it, is that the people I'm hanging out with are getting younger and younger. At 80, I'm hanging out with 30 and 40-year-olds, entrepreneurs, because they're still growing, they're still excited. But on the other hand, I haven't stayed in touch with anybody who wasn't growing at 30 and 40, you know. So generally speaking, I hang out with people who are emotionally, you know, similar. They're taking on new things. They're facing up to challenges that they've never had before. They're being forced to recreate how they're going about things. That's my goal. And, you know, all my medical tests and psychological tests and mental tests indicate that I'm reversing the clock somewhat.
 
Shannon Waller: Which is amazing and I love it. It's interesting, Dan, I think to your point about age, part of that, you will start to have to befriend people who are younger, because people at your level, when everyone else around you is retiring, there's a pull there and people's conversations are like, oh, are you still working? Some of my friends, definitely my husband's friends, have all retired. There's very few of us that are still working. And I have no intention of stopping. But it's interesting because there's a bit of a gravitational pull. And you even talked about this, I think, around age 70. So it's like keep befriending younger people. I know it's one of your strategies.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, in an appropriate way.
 
Shannon Waller: Of course.
 
Dan Sullivan: I mean, the Program surprised me. I mean, The Strategic Coach, because we have young new entrepreneurs coming into the Program all the time. So some of them, you know, they do a year at the first level, they do a second year at the second level, and they're in the third level by the third year. And they're really talented, successful, ambitious. You know, very creative and everything like that. So I've created an environment and an ecosystem that just naturally supplies the type of individuals who my interaction with them keeps me very young.
 
Shannon Waller: Yep. I see that it keeps me young as well. So, Dan, this is fascinating. I'm walking away from this conversation with a couple of things. One is direct your messaging. Or you're selling messages, put it that way, to be what you want to attract. So if you want to attract growth-oriented people who are not fearful and not in pain, your messaging needs to be that too. It sounds like a simple, obvious idea once I say that, but that's not how most people market. So I find that really interesting. And the other thing is really pay attention to who you hang out with because that community will help stimulate you and support your principles of growth and who you're being versus another set of people in a different community who might be of a different mindset, put it that way. So this is pretty essential for life and how people live. I love this.
 
Dan Sullivan: I have super antennae for any retirement talk, if anybody's talking about retirement. One of them that I really noticed, and it came up a lot in my travels over the last month, and they say, well, Dan, you're leaving a really big legacy. And I said, I don't think you have a legacy until you're dead. I'm not sure that they ever talk about legacy until the person is gone. One way or another, they're gone. And because we focus a lot on health, Babs and I focus a lot on health, my understanding why someone would want to die, I just can't comprehend why you'd want to die. I mean, I just see no benefit to death. I said, is there a payoff? You know, I was raised with a belief in the afterlife. Deep down, I believe that there is another life after this life. But this is the one where you make progress. This is where you grow. This is where you actually achieve and create. So I don't want to get to the happy resting place.
 
Shannon Waller: There is a great quote that I heard from these two women called the Delaney sisters. And the expression is, heaven is my home, but I ain't homesick. I think it's kind of perfect for that. And I think, Dan, why people start to check out is if they're not well, they don't feel good, they've run out of friends, purpose, and money.
 
Dan Sullivan: They're bored.
 
Shannon Waller: They're bored, right? So it's really important, I think, and not to take it for granted, that you actually create the environment, you create the community, you create the ecosystem, you create the health, so that you never are subject to those kind of thoughts that might pull you down. And then you can live according to your principles, your growth principles. So I really love this. I did not know that the conversation was going to end up here, Dan. This is fantastic.
 
Dan Sullivan: Thank you, Shannon.
 
Shannon Waller: Thank you very much, Dan.