How Entrepreneurs Can Access A Whole New World Of Thinking

Shannon Waller: Hi, Shannon Waller here and welcome to Inside Strategic Coach with Dan Sullivan. Dan, you and I were just talking about how the Program really gives entrepreneurs more time to think. And thinking time is something that most entrepreneurs don't give themselves, don't take, or don't feel like they have time for. So thinking time is actually the subject of this, but let's explore like what exactly is thinking time? Why is it important? Let's start there.
 
Dan Sullivan: Well, I'll make a more general statement, Shannon. I don't think human beings give themselves time to think. It's just that I think the stakes are higher for entrepreneurs simply because they're in the marketplace independently. They don't have somebody else's employment structure protecting them from their deadlines. We had a book out, and it's the very first quarterly book. It's called Thinking About Your Thinking. And what I've observed is that most people, the kind of thinking we do in Strategic Coach, they only do that under extreme emergency. You know, they're in a crisis. And I'll be in a non-Strategic Coach setting. You know, we just get into some thinking about thinking subjects, and people say, oh, this is really getting deep. Okay. And I found that comment really interesting. I said, well, this is just normal talk in Strategic Coach, but for them it's deep thinking. And there's something scary about deep thinking. You know, like, why are you doing that? You know, any why question is deep thinking, you know, because you don't have the answer to it until you've heard the question and you create it on the spot. So that most people have three levels of thinking. They think about things, you know, they just are constantly talking about things, things they own, things they wish they owned, things other people have that they wish they owned, and everything else. And then there's a second one, they talk about other people, they think about other people, and I guess that's why social media got so big, as people like communicating with their 500 closest friends every day, tell them, you know, took five minutes longer getting out of bed this morning, they tell 5,000 people about that. Now that's just normal. And it's not that someone just does one kind of thinking. So people who think about other people think about other people's things, you know, so they're talking at that level. And then there's people who think about thoughts, but they're not their thoughts. And higher education is almost entirely based on people who spent their whole life thinking about somebody else's thoughts, but they're not really their thoughts. So it's a lot easier to get entrepreneurs thinking about this because they're faced with real world deadlines, real world challenges, and they have to make real world decisions. And so I found that the tools that we've created in Strategic Coach, which are all thinking about your thinking tools, really land well with most entrepreneurs. I would say there's entrepreneurs that it doesn't. But I mean, when you're out, you know, not in Strategic Coach circle, don't you find that people don't really talk? They talk a lot about something that you don't find really interesting or important.
 
Shannon Waller: No, I was saying in an earlier conversation, I just have zero patience or attention really for small talk, like talking about things, whatever. So what? I want my things, you want your things, we're good. You know, that's the end of that one. About other people, I also know it's for me, most often incorrect. We can't understand someone else's motivations, we can ask questions, we can ask them, but a whole bunch of people talking about someone else doesn't forward anything, it doesn't get it there. And university became a lot better for me when I realized I was actually thinking that university was about your thinking. No, I could make peace with it when I realized I was only learning what other people already knew. In other words, other people's thoughts. So what I find most interesting is when someone tells me, hey, this is how I'm thinking about this, bam, I have a lot to contribute, lots to ask, lots to listen for. That's an engaging, fun, forwarding conversation. The other ones, you're probably making it up or guessing or bragging, none of which actually makes anything useful happen in my world. So talking about thinking, that's gold, and that's by far the most interesting. Yeah, so most conversations at cocktail parties, you'll see me in the corner with one person having a deep conversation.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, me too, me too.
 
Shannon Waller: Because you won't see me working.
 
Dan Sullivan: I'll find the person in the room that can think about their thinking, and that's it for the party. 100%.
 
Shannon Waller: Yeah, yeah. One person will say to my husband, wow, I had this great conversation with Shannon. We talked about blah, blah, blah. And then no one else will even know I was there. It's happened more than once.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like radio waves. You pick this station. But I mean, the whole start of Strategic Coach was based on a question. If we were having this discussion, and it was three years from now, and you're looking back from three years back to today, what has to happen in your life over those three years for you to feel happy with your progress? Well, that's a really big question, you know, and then you shut your mouth after you've asked the question and you just sit there and you can see the people all of a sudden they're not looking at you, they're looking off and they're imagining the scenario that you've just set up. The reason I'm bringing up this subject is that one of our team members, one of our sales team, just had a phenomenal month from asking that question of people. And he got 13 sales, which is a big deal in Strategic Coach. And he said, you know, I've learned this and it always works, but can you explain why it works? And I said, well, first of all, you're using a tense of the English language called the future perfect. And nobody uses the future perfect. It's there. It sits in the English language. But you're asking them to go into the future and imagine that you're standing in the future. But then you're treating the three years back to today as the past. You've created three years of past that they're in the future and they're looking and it does magic things to their brain. I mean, first of all, they bought you as a relationship because you have the premise that you and the other person are in relationship three years from today. So the first thing in any sale, whether it's a sale for a product or a service or an experience, is that the first thing that people buy is a relationship, and this we're together. So they've already bought that they're comfortable enough with me and they're trusting me that they can imagine that the two of us are talking three years in the future and then you ask them to look backwards and what are they going to be happy about their progress. Well there's only one expert on what progress is going to make them happy and that's them, and they sit there and I think that they sense that this is a rare experience and that they get a chance now to do some thinking about their thinking that they have never done before, and it may not happen again, so they better take it seriously as they're doing it. And that's thinking. The answer to that question, they're thinking about their thinking, and it's a rare experience. In that question, you tell what Strategic Coach is all about. It's thinking about your thinking, about your experience.
 
Shannon Waller: As you said, it is a rare experience. And you've said this more than once. And I like it, Dan, because I really echo what you say. And when I coach the team on this, pretty much word for word, those nuances to the question are so key. They're the only experts. It's about progress, not perfection. It's assuming a relationship in the future and looking back. And they haven't envisioned their future like that before. And then we can really easily determine whether or not Coach is a right fit for what they're up to and whether or not they're a right fit for Coach. So it becomes this partner conversation, not a sales conversation. It's about, hey, this is your future. This is where we can create value for you. Let's see whether or not we've got essentially a collaboration. So it's such a rich question, but it's interesting. You have to be willing to bite your tongue and wait, because people will take a few seconds. They'll take a beat before they marshal their thoughts, because you're not asking them about what they already know. You're asking them about them.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, I call it the R-Factor Question because you're asking about the relationship, and their willingness to answer the question tells you that if things worked out, they would like to have a relationship with you. And that decision is made in seconds.
 
Shannon Waller: Dan, can you share the example you shared the other day when someone didn't want to answer that question with you and what you did?
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, I mean, I don't remember the circumstances, but I do remember the drama of the situation. So I asked him this question and he says, well, I don't even know you. It's pretty early to be answering that kind of question. And I says, no, no, no, it's actually, it's too late. I said, the reason I've come here, I want to see whether what we do at Strategic Coach can be useful to you. And in order to know that it's useful, I have to know something about what you're planning with your future. And I can't really line up anything we're doing unless I get your answer to that question. And since you don't want to share that with me, there's nothing I can do for you. So thanks for the time. We've probably both saved ourselves a lot of time. And I just reached over and, you know, he just reflexively shook my hand and I stood up and he said, well, where are you going? And I says, there's nothing for us to talk about because you won't. And he said, wait a minute, can we start? I said, nope, nope. You had a chance, you don't get another chance to do it. I mean, I'm hardline on this. If they won't answer the question the first time, I don't want to hear their answer to it, period. So I just walked out, you know, I just walked out. And over a period of about a year, I got three phone calls from this person saying, hey, you know, I was rude. And I said, no, you weren't rude. You were absolutely truthful. You did not trust me enough to answer the question. And I said, I think the reason why you're phoning me is that I did an unnatural act. And that is the salesperson rejected you. And what you're trying to do is you're trying to restore your status. You know, you lost control in this situation, but no. I found that if someone doesn't answer the question right away, they don't trust me, and they will not trust me in the future either, you know. Anyway, I mean, the whole point about this is the topic of this podcast is thinking about your thinking. One of the things that I think is that someone like that is afraid of their own thinking. They're afraid of their own thinking, so it's not that they don't trust me to talk to me about the question. They're afraid of actually asking the question themselves. They don't go there because they have a fear that they won't like the answers if they ask themselves that question.
 
Shannon Waller: And another thing I've experienced, because I've asked the question a fair bit, is that people just don't think. Their only thinking is about things, people, and thoughts. They don't actually have their own. So it's an unnatural act for them to think.
 
Dan Sullivan: It's an unnatural act. There you go.
 
Shannon Waller: And they don't trust what they come up with and they're afraid of it. So, you know, we talk about always be the buyer and they want that control. But if you're going to have a collaborative, you know, partnership relationship, the other cool thing, although this is not so much about thinking, Dan, you didn't take it personally and you didn't try to convince him to trust you. You were like, no, for whatever reason, maybe I look like somebody who doesn't like, for whatever reason, I'm not going to push that.
 
Dan Sullivan: It would be a waste of my time. And it would be a waste of their time if I tried to come at it another way, you know. But already the game was over. There's no game today, so I'm going to have a coffee. I'm going to Starbucks.
 
Shannon Waller: I love that.
 
Dan Sullivan: The other thing about it is if they do answer the question, these are really, really serious matters. And the thing is, no one has ever asked them the question. Consequently, they may not have access to the thinking that they're doing in the next 15 minutes, 20 minutes, whatever it is. I wrote a book on this called The R-Factor Question. Everybody else was claiming it, so I call it the Dan Sullivan question. I just had a story that I got someone who referred to possibly be a member of The Strategic Coach Program. So it was a good referral. And he says, so-and-so said a lot about your program. Can you tell me about your program? And I said, well, before I tell you about my program, I just want to ask you a question. So if we were meeting here three years from today, and you were looking back over the three years, what has to happen in your business and in your personal life for you to feel happy with your progress? Okay. Notice it's happiness with your progress, not happiness. What's going to make you happy? I don't ask that question. Happy with your progress, which means that they have to, in their mind, establish, I grew here, this is bigger, this is better, I'm freed up here, because their progress, and it was progress that they'd be happy with. So this person didn't answer right away. He took about a minute, you know, so I asked the question and I could tell he was thinking, you know, I wasn't impatient and there's no use me saying anything else. It just destroys the structure of what we're doing. And he says, well, I'll tell you. Three years ago, I was a complete and total alcoholic. And he says, it's taken me three years to get back up to ground zero. I was in such a hole. So I've got to really make up for lost time. So in three years, I have to do this and I have to do this and I have to do this. I was looking at my watch. He talked for 23 minutes straight. And at the end of 23 minutes, he said, well, your program sounds really good. You know, and there's a humor to that because I didn't say a word after I asked the question. And he's saying my program sounds really good. And I thought about it afterwards and I said, I really did tell him everything about the Program, that the Program was going to be about him and it wasn't going to be about me. And that's all he wanted to know. Who's the Program for? And I contrast that to a program where I'm going to talk non-stop at him, and he just didn't want to go to a program where he was talked at. He wanted a program where he could do some real thinking.
 
Shannon Waller: And I love that example, Dan, because it's so illustrative of the power of the R-Factor question and of our program, because the Program is about you. The Strategic Coach and the membership is all about you and what you're up to, not about us. We have brilliant tools to help you get there.
 
Dan Sullivan: But they're all thinking about your thinking.
 
Shannon Waller: Exactly. So Dan, I want to go back to what you said. I said entrepreneurs and you said actually it's people don't give themselves, don't take a lot of time for them to think. So let's unpack why that happens or how that happens. What's the function there?
 
Dan Sullivan: They're busy. No, they're busy. They get up in the morning, they're busy with this, they're busy with that, they're busy with this. Then they're, you know, checking social media, then, you know, returning phone calls and you're doing emails, but they're not really thinking about their thinking. They're just engaging with whatever, where the world is throwing at them for the whole day, and then they're really tired, and then they watch television. But you definitely are not thinking about your thinking when you're watching television, okay? And I have to do, because I gave up television six years ago. I haven't watched any television. And I noticed I got 800 hours back to think about my thinking. A year, 800 hours a year. Six years is close to 5,000 hours I got back. But people are busy, you know, and it's not modern life. In the middle of the 19th century, people weren't thinking about their thinking. They were busy with what constituted busyness back then. OK, you have to learn how to think about your thinking. All the other thinking comes naturally because you're just reacting to what's coming at you here. You're taking control. You're taking agency over what actually goes on in your mind, you know. And then you discover, gee, there's a whole world of thinking that I never knew was there. I just never knew there was this other world where I can actually think about my thinking. I had one this morning. It's a fairly new tool. Well, it was yesterday. I had another tool this morning. And the thinking exercise, if your entire life up until now was a single project, what's the project you're working on? And so, you know, I have a way of taking them through a series of questions and they have a sheet of paper and they write it down. And then at the end of it, and they've answered all these questions, they said, so what were your three biggest insights from doing all that thinking? And then they write down the thinking, then they go into breakout group and they're amazed. They're amazed. They said, my life really has been a single project. I never realized that before. So I said, what's that do to your thinking about the future that your whole life is a single project? And I tell them what mine is. Mine is creating thinking tools for entrepreneurs to think about their thinking. That's my entire project. I was doing this in one way or another when I was seven or eight years old, not with entrepreneurs, but with humans. And humans oftentimes were 40, 50 years older than me. And I just noticed that there's this whole vast unlimited universe called your thinking, but most people never think about it until they have a crisis. Okay. You know, they have a, an emergency or they have a loss or they have a failure. And then for a very brief period of time, they think about their thinking and they review their life and they sort of say decisions. And you know what, they call that thinking about their thinking. Trauma.
 
Shannon Waller: Oh, yeah. Interesting.
 
Dan Sullivan: Oh, that was dramatic. That was and they don't want to do that again. They don't want to be in any situation again where they have to think about their thinking. So they spend their whole life missing life.
 
Shannon Waller: Hmm. That's fascinating.
 
Dan Sullivan: I just thought that up because I was thinking about my thinking.
 
Shannon Waller: There you go. And Dan, what's interesting because at Coach, you just had two Connection Calls yesterday and today, plus other exercise that you've done this week with our coaches and then every coaching opportunity. So people in our programs as part of Strategic Coach have lots of opportunities to think about their thinking. And what's interesting is the more you do it, the more normal it becomes. You're not scared of your own thoughts.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah. And the other thing is you don't like thinking about things and thinking about people and thinking about other people's thoughts. It is a very addictive activity.
 
Shannon Waller: In the best way possible. And this is interesting because this ties into another point I was talking about with you earlier. Came like a flash of insight and then I read it once I wrote it down, I'm like, oh, it doesn't sound that spectacular. But I looked at a couple of clients that I've known in our FreeZone workshop and I looked at their businesses four years ago and where they are now, they're a hundred to a thousand times of what they were before. And my insight was like, wow, this is what our tools unlock people's thinking, which the evidence of it is wild. It doesn't sound all that dramatic, but it really does. And it's kind of amazing what happens when you're in an environment where that's supported. It's not traumatic. It's not trauma. It's normal. It's normal. And then these incredible possibilities and then realities happen out of it. And it's stellar. But unlocking people's thinking is really the magic of both the tools and the environment in the community that you create, which has been really fun to be a part of, to watch for my own thinking as well. So it's really interesting.
 
Dan Sullivan: Well, what about you? I mean, you're 33 years in Coach, you know, a team and a leader and coach for 33 years. What was your thinking about your thinking in 1991 and what your thinking about your thinking in 2024?
 
Shannon Waller: There's so many little steps. I actually can't wait to do that exercise. Your life is a project. I'm curious. Single project. I'm having a hunch of what I think it is.
 
Dan Sullivan: I think it's next Thursday.
 
Shannon Waller: Oh, excellent. Yes, I'll be there. So I think for me, what is most true is that limitations that other people see on themselves, I don't have. People like, oh, I can't do this. I shouldn't do this. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Of course you can. So it's kind of this limitless, it's not impractical, but it's this really sense of, oh, well, if I really want it to happen, I can make it happen. Between technology and Whos and Unique Ability, I can make anything I really want to have happen, happen. So it's just this sense of expansion and this sense of freedom. And I was reading a particular book where they say you have to, like, look at your mindsets and make sure you eliminate like limiting beliefs. And man, I wonder how many you're thinking about, you're thinking that's taken care of. It's fun to realize that my brain is in some ways, despite being ADD, calmer in those aspects than a lot of other people. People have this internal conversation that just looks brutal. And I think when you're thinking about your thinking, you just have access to shift it to be something that's, you know, more forwarding to the future that you want.
 
Dan Sullivan: I've known you for 33 years, and I've only seen one situation in your life that was really traumatic, and you didn't think about your thinking. And it happened within the last year.
 
Shannon Waller: Oh, okay. Yeah.
 
Dan Sullivan: Packing up your house so your house could be renovated.
 
Shannon Waller: You are so right.
 
Dan Sullivan: And you did not do any thinking about your thinking. You were totally reactive to that whole situation.
 
Shannon Waller: And it was awful.
 
Dan Sullivan: Well, you got a little insight when you don't think about your thinking. I've seen you in real emergency situation with people dying and having to really take leadership in a situation. And you're cool and calm. You are not ADD when you're in those situations. You're very focused. You're very calm and everything. But in my 33 years, the only time I've seen Shannon not thinking about her thinking is when she had to pack everything and move, you know?
 
Shannon Waller: Yeah, move out for a renovation. Well, and to that point, it's been a huge learning from last year, just huge, because my husband and I, Bruce, decided to get married in 1996. Yes, July 27th, 1996. We used a Strategy Circle to get married, right? Like a critical thinking tool in Coach, the number one. And did I do a Strategy Circle, an Impact Filter for moving? No, I did not. Like, I did one 28 years ago, and I didn't do one today. Yeah, that was kind of crazy. Which is kind of funny, because I realized I didn't take complete ownership of the project.
 
Dan Sullivan: And then I didn't do the thinking about… Oh, you were a victim from day one.
 
Shannon Waller: Yeah, I kind of thought I could just, on the surface… Victim of packing. Yeah, and it's truly an incompetence.
 
Dan Sullivan: And it was traumatic.
 
Shannon Waller: It was bad. You're 100% right. But to that point, knowing that I'm not beating myself up. It's like, okay, note to self, do something different next time. And I think that's one of the wisdom that comes out of the thinking tools. By the way, it's not easy to think about your thinking without the tools, or at least it's so much easier with the tools is one of my other takeaways, because it puts your brain on paper and you can see it differently. But it's just the fact that, and this came out with all of our coaches, when you can think about your thinking, it allows you to be capable and present and handle stuff as it comes up. And confident. And confident and resilient, like, some of the circumstances that our coaches, our community have had to handle. Otherwise you would have said traumatic, but they're incredibly challenging and they had the freedom of time, money, relationship, and purpose to handle it, and it's impressive. So one of the byproducts of thinking about your thinking is it allows you to be your absolute best, most capable, most contributing self no matter what. You are not at the effect of circumstances. You can be very alert to what's required and take effective action. It's pretty impressive.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's just an observation. And I don't know how human talents are distributed. It seems to me that there is no predictability. But regardless of what your other talents are, the talent of thinking about your thinking, I think it has to be consciously learned. And I think it has to be practiced. And every time you do some thinking about your thinking, I think the skill of thinking about your thinking expands. You get better and better at it. You know, for example, sometimes I'll get myself in a deadline crunch. And my first thing is I sit down, we have another tool called the Fast Filter. Instead of doing any of the stuff that I have to do to meet the deadlines, I stopped for about a half hour. And I said, so what I have to do tomorrow? Usually it's tomorrow. I have to do this tomorrow. And before I go to bed at night, I just simply say, tomorrow, how am I going to do this? And I said, I'm just going to do all this really superbly. And even though I feel I don't have enough time, I'm going to have absolutely more of the time than I need to get everything done. And then I say, what's the worst that happens? I just go into a panic, I cancel things and everything, you know, just the worst result. And I'm very, very good at envisioning and stating really worst circumstances. And then I said, so I got five things to do tomorrow. This is how I'm gonna handle this one, this is how I'm gonna handle it. And then I go to bed. First of all, I feel, I'm not thinking about it during the middle of the night. I get up in the morning and I just, five things. And what I noticed is because I took ownership for the five things the night before, I didn't have to think about them as I was doing them because I'd already predicted success for all five. Yeah, I'm learning not to get into deadline crunches, but it happens.
 
Shannon Waller: This ties into something that you've always said, but I've never applied it quite the way you just said it, which is the problem is never the problem. The problem is not knowing how to think about the problem. And I think that's what causes so much consternation with people against deadlines because they're not sure what to do.
 
Dan Sullivan: The fact that you thought about the night, I don't even know how to think about the deadline. They don't know how to think about whatever the activity is, whatever the project is. They've not given themselves permission to even think it through. And I do find that the first thing that happens as a result of my night before thinking is I find that there's about five other people who can help me with this. And I do another Fast Filter in the morning. And I said, I need this done. And I lay it out and I take 15, 20 minutes thinking how they can do it for me rather than I'm doing it. And so if I have five projects, I can probably get it down to three, which I didn't have that time the day before, but I have the time after the thinking.
 
Shannon Waller: Uh-huh. I love it. Dan, last thing I want to touch on is one of your other expressions, because you have a lot of great ones about this, in that too tightly scheduled entrepreneurs cannot transform.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, it's not too tightly. It's tightly. Tightly scheduled. Yeah, not too tightly, just tightly scheduled.
 
Shannon Waller: You can tell I'm trying to maximize here.
 
Dan Sullivan: No, tightly is too tightly.
 
Shannon Waller: Clearly you can see my calendar.
 
Dan Sullivan: Tightly means you got no space between schedules. So I have a rule, it's enforced by my scheduler, that if I have four things in the day, I have a half hour between each of those things. If one of them goes a little long, I got the half hour there to do it. And I get time to relax, walk around, do something else. And then I do the next one and that ends. And then I got a half hour to do that. And most people won't give themselves permission to do that because they say, well, between your four things, you had an hour and a half. You had 30, 30, and 30 between the four. And they said, think of what you'd done if you had done something else with the 90 minutes, because they think that there's a victory to getting a lot of things done. And I think there's a victory in getting the right things done comfortably and confidently.
 
Shannon Waller: And you're not distracted, you're fully present, you're with people, be it on Zoom or what have you. So doing a few things really effectively and well is far more important to you than just checking off a long list.
 
Dan Sullivan: And usually it's three per day that I have. I try not to have three important things in any given day.
 
Shannon Waller: So a tightly scheduled entrepreneur.
 
Dan Sullivan: Tightly scheduled entrepreneurs cannot transform themselves.
 
Shannon Waller: I love how I just added a word there.
 
Dan Sullivan: Here's the thing. If we did a competition and you just packed your day of getting things done, you could beat me on day one. You might beat me on day three, but on day four, going forward, I'm beating you because you're tired. You're stressed out. You're not getting enough sleep. You're not exercising. You're not doing enjoyable pastimes. Anybody can beat me for the first three days, but I'll outproduce them starting on day four.
 
Shannon Waller: I was so good.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah. I'm not competitive, but I do like winning.
 
Shannon Waller: That's a good quote too, Dan. I'm not competitive, but I do like winning. I love it. So Dan, I really like this because there's been a lot of practical takeaways. So leaving half hour between major things, doing an Impact Filter, and we will link the Impact Filter on our show notes because that's something a tool that… Let's do the Fast Filter. Okay, let's do the Fast Filter.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, Fast Filter, because it's 15 minutes.
 
Shannon Waller: You can do that. Love that. And then also you can ask other people the R-Factor Question, but you can also ask yourself. And that's a really powerful tool. So I'm thrilled that we've given, you know, you the listener, very actionable things that you can do so that you can be less scheduled, more thinking about your thinking, and then transform the way that you want to.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, and I think all of our tools have the quality that you get things done faster, you get them done easier, you get them done cheaper, and you get the bigger result. We count them up because we're submitting a lot of them for patents right now. And I think we had a total of 240. And all those tools came out of me having time to think about my thinking. People say, well, where do you get these ideas? And I said, when I'm thinking about my thinking, lots of stuff just comes to me that's not predictable. But I take it seriously. Anything that occurs to me during thinking about my thinking is usually really good stuff.
 
Shannon Waller: That's a great point. IP is taking your ideas seriously. Intellectual property. So I really like that. I think, you know, giving yourself time, giving yourself that space, trusting your thoughts, not being afraid of what you might be thinking, I think is key. And then using tools, thinking tools, which is really what all of Strategic Coach is 100% about. So thank you, Dan. I feel like this is a very timely, important, relevant, and practical conversation to help free people up, which is, again, what we're all about. So thank you very much.
 
Dan Sullivan: Thank you, Shannon.